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Friday
Dec112009

The Tenuous and Evervescent Obama Birth Certificate

OK.  It has been a while since I wrote about this topic not because I fear it but because it just doesn't matter to anyone in DC.  Why?  Because it just might cause a constitutional issue, there will be riots all over the place and besides, Obama has already won the election so the constitution just doesn't matter anymore.  Right?  Right.  However, don't tell some "Conservatives" that bit of data.  You just might be called a Black Helicopter Republican.  Don't tell the libtards that data because you just might become a racist.  And, don't tell Obama because it will make him really mad because he doesn't know who his daddy is.

Political Pistachio: Obama's Birth Certificate: What is the Democrats Really Hiding?

In response to a post I wrote about an Obama Treason Case in Tennessee Seeking the president's Birth Certificate, a long-time friend of mine asked in the comment section:

I know Doug you say that your concern is why he has not produced a legitimate document, but you don't necessarily believe Obama was born outside the USA, but if that is the case, then why hide the real birth certificate? If he's eligible, then what else could he be hiding?

My Response Is As Follows:

Rick,

Because I address the issue of the birth certificate, write about stories like the belief a forgery has been created and has been aged under ultraviolet lamps, or because I have interviewed folks like Orly Taitz on the matter, it is automatically assumed by the leftists that I am a "birther" to the extreme. That is how they are. Give them something that may be construed a certain way, then their warped minds try to read into it, and a whole series of accusations rise to the surface.

I realize you are of the mind that he [Obama] was born in Kenya. I don't know if that is the case, although there is some testimonial evidence from a number of folks, including his paternal grandmother, that he was born in Kenya. I believe it is very possible he was born in Hawaii, but I don't know for sure. Like the fact the birthers haven't provided enough evidence that Obama is not a natural born citizen, Obama and gang have not provided enough evidence to the contrary either. Therefore, that leaves the issue open to a lot of speculation.

Considering how much effort Obama and the Democrats have gone to silence those folks asking for a birth certificate, and how much money Obama has spent on sealing records and ensuring "birther" court cases don't see the light of day, it seems reasonable to ask, "If Obama was not born outside of the USA, then what is he hiding?" That is the key, isn't it?

As Andrea Shea King suggested on her show last night, reading a letter she received regarding the issue, it may be something catastrophic to Obama, or it may be something simply embarrassing, something Obama does not desire to be made public. It [what is being hidden] could be something as simple as the word "UNKNOWN" in the slot where it asks for his father's name, or something so profound that it would make his books obvious lies and fabrications. Whatever it is, the Obama-mafia has determined the best way to combat it is to say nothing, and seal everything. Then, as the "birthers" continue their march for the truth, the very fact there is silence from the Obama camp makes the "birthers" look like they are making a lot out of nothing at all - eventually becoming, in the eyes of Obama supporters, and pretty much anybody else that is not searching for answers, a bunch of conspiracy nuts that obviously made it all up for attention, or to try to unseat Obama because they hate him so much.

The travesty of such progression of thought is that in the long run, the truth is never revealed, and Obama's silence becomes the winning hand. Personally, I believe that all trails should be traveled, and every cave should be investigated. If they turn out to be rabbit trails and empty caves, then so be it. But when roadblocks are set up along the trail, and an iron door with multiple locks and alarms [shields] the cave entrance, despite the fact that those guarding the entrance are saying "nothing to see here, move along," it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that something is being hidden from view, and for reasons one can only imagine.

Personally, I do believe that Obama fears the name of his real father to be known.  It could be that communist mentor he had in Hawaii.  Also, because of the US Constitution which was based upon the Law of Nations  (not the League of Nations prior to the United Nations) and not British Common Law, both parents must be American citizens.  Period.  So, it doesn't matter where Obama was born.  Does it?  If both parents are not American citizens, Obama is not a "natural born" American citizen.  End of the story.  In the original embodiment of the United States Constitution, capitalized letters menat something and in the USC Law of Nations was in fact capitalized which meant what?  It meant that the writers of the USC knew about and had in their possession Vattal's Law of Nations and in that volume, "natural born" citizen was a determination that a boy or girl born with two citizens made the new boy or girl a "natural born" citizen.  It cannot get any simpler than that.

Now I do know for a fact that we have SCOTUS idiots and congressional idiots and many people in the USA thinking that the United States was founded upon Common Law which it was not.  We fought a war over British Common Law so why form a government under that which we fought against?  So, get over the British Common Law deal.  Saying we are Common Law is very deceitful and flat out wrong.

From Eric Wong at Pat Dollard: You Did Not Just Say That: “The Constitution Is Just A Suggestion”

[...] Listening to the John & Cisco morning radio program here on Chicago’s WIND AM 560 this morning, I was suddenly stopped dead in my tracks. One of the hosts, John Howell, asked Chicago Tribune editorialists Clarence Page about a contentious issue; whether candidates for the office of President of the United States of America should have to present proof of citizenship before being allowed to vie for the office. Mr. Page’s answer was not only a slight to the Constitution; it placed him firmly in the camp of the constitutionally illiterate.

When asked if vetting candidates for national office, specifically the presidency, wasn’t something that all Americans could agree upon, Mr. Page replied:

“You can never please some people, as you can see. I know Liberals who believe John McCain should be challenged because he wasn’t born in the US, because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone and…ah…they will point to different constitutional loopholes…ah…that they say would disqualify him. I remember George Romney, Mitt’s Dad…ah…went through the same thing…ah…back in the 60s. As far as I’m concerned, why can’t Madeleine Albright be a good president even though she wasn’t born a citizen? Or the governor of Michigan right now? This is the kind of thing…folks are kind of groping for any reason to disqualify a president or presidential candidate that they don’t like and…ah…I just find it to be a specious debate…I think we’ve got more important issues to worry about…maybe that’s just me (laughter).”

Pardon me for not laughing, Mr. Page. I didn’t know that the US Constitution – or the mandates held within – was a joke. I was under the impression that the Constitution was the basis on which our system of government was founded; on which our legal system was based. I was under the impression that Article II, Section 1, was to be taken seriously. [...]

Curt at Flopping Aces: Palin Mainstreaming The Birthers? I Don’t Think So

Birthers.  Sounds like teabagging to me.

[...] But that’s not going to stop those with Palin Derangement Syndrome from expressing their utter outrage that she even utters the word “birth certificate.” How dare she say if the electorate want him to produce a birth certificate then he should. What does she think he is? A politician answerable to the American people?

Puhlease…..he’s Obama. He answers to no one.

Hell, he won’t even produce his college and law school transcripts. [END]

Birthers.  I suppose I am one of those only because I demand an answer to the question: Do you have two American parents or not?  John McCain did.  Remember?

See these posts: I'M A BIRTHER! - Does The Illegal Alien Barack Have A Birth Certificate? (is Barack an illegal alien?  no one knows) - The Ever Evasive and Mysterious Soetoro Birth Certificate - The Obama AWOL Birth Certificate Update - Birth Certificate The Illegal Alien's (Barack Obama) AWOL  - Can We See Soetoro's Birth Certificate Yet? -

[...] He could have very well ended all discussions of his natural-born status when John McCain's was ended but he did not. Perhaps because he could not and cannot still.

In April of 2008, Senator McCain's "natural born" citizen status was settled by Senate Resolution 511. I thought it peculiar that Patrick Leahy would make the comment that the term "natural born citizen" was not defined in the Constitution when it clearly is defined. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to detect the Constitutional definition when the definition is clearly stated in the Constitution. There is other verbiage in the Resolution that is equally suspect.

[...] Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; [...]
This statement was added to the Resolution by none other than Barack Hussein Obama. Why?

In the process of my self-admonitions of following for a well crafted scam, I ran across this post recently after Pamela Geller rocked my world back in July.

[...] From Obama own website:

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor
sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship
automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

Question?

How could it expire, if he never had it? [END]

Indeed. My learning and my cravings for knowledge will never end on this subject. In the linked post, I learned several other items of interest and I do believe that honest people will also see the light, as it were. Naturally, the apologists that can never admit to being in error will claim high and mighty blissful ignorance. [...]

There's more...

[...] During the campaign for either the presidency of the United States on one side of the aisle and the campaign for the First Czar of the Disunited Soviet Socialist States of KKK-A on the other side of the aisle, the topic of natural-born status for Obama arose and the Obama Goon Squads rose to the occasion.  What did they do?  They questioned McCain's natural-born status.

What did McCain do?  He produced his papers and what came of it?  In April of 2008, Senator McCain's "natural born" citizen status was settled by Senate Resolution 511.  Soon thereafter, the cowards of the GOP did not press Obama to produce his papers and accused everyone that questioned Obama's natural-born status as racists or other inane name-calling.

Why wasn't there a Senate Resolution for Obama?  Why does he get a free pass?  Obama, does not meet the Constitutional requirements, that's why.  Until the Imam of Obama proves his bona fides, he is the Usurper, the Liar in Chief and the Fraud in Chief and I will not recognize his authority or the authority of his illegal and unconstitutional administration, comprised of lobbyists Obama said he wouldn't have, tax cheats, crooks and liars.  I will also not recognize the authority of the United States Congress whether it be the House of Unconstitutional Unrepresentatives or the Unconstitutional Senate that has unconstitutionally confirmed unconstitutional secretaries of the Interior and State. [...]

So, Obama, where is the birth certificate?

The Snooper Report.  Join us as we Take Our Country Back.
Sic vis pacem para bellum
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Reader Comments (58)

You should add some of the other videos from illuminatitv channel like these in a follow up post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t5liC__Pko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAhVfJdm6Zo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldKduAz-jOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcgyHj3SzPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZC7kvGllvg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p61BcK5T5o

December 11, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Done

December 11, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "So, Obama, where is the birth certificate?"

Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii. (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

The Wall Street Journal commented:

"Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn."

December 11, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Sorry, punk. A libtard is a libtard is a libtard. The "folks" in Hawaii said they had seen the birth certificate but have it "under arrest" Some moron at the WSJ seems to think that the US Constitution means nothing to anyone, It matters to me. All I need to see if the schmuck Obama has TWO American citizens. If not, he is toast and don't give me that crap on the internet either. Everyone knows it is bogus except for the Obamatards.

By the way, stay away from Boston, MA.

December 11, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Ha Ha! I’m frightened. And, I am so impressed.

What you have written shows that when presented with facts, birther/twofers respond with swearing and with threats. I will NOT respond in kind. You can visit Cleveland whenever you want.

Here are the facts. Obama was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate shows, and the facts on that birth certificate were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html).

There is absolutely no evidence that Obama was born anywhere else than Hawaii. His Kenyan grandmother did not say that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. There is no documentary evidence of his birth in Kenya and no evidence that his mother went to Kenya. And, here is the key, no evidence of any US travel document that would get a child born in Kenya to Hawaii. That is why the National Review wrote: " The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.” (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA)

Okay, so there is evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

Re your illiterate “TWO American citizens.” I take it that you are referring to the myth that to be a Natural Born Citizen both your parents had to be citizens.

This is not true. The original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country.” It comes from the British common law and from the laws in the American colonies at the time of the Revolution, and it was the only way that the phrase “Natural Born was ever used by American writers at the time. It was the equivalent of Native Born, which was very rarely used at the time.

That is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

So Obama, having been born in Hawaii, is a Natural Born Citizen under the original definition. He won the election, and not a single Electoral College vote that he won on Nov. 4, went against him. He won 365 electoral votes, all of them voted for him. Not one of the 365, and not one member of Congress bought the birther claims that he was not born in Hawaii or that you need two citizen parents to be a Natural Born Citizen.

Notice I have not sworn nor called names. Looking forward to a civilized debate, citing facts and law and logic. This is what convinces people, not calling names or making threats. Of course, if you can’t do that, you are a fine example of the intellectual capabilities of your side.

December 12, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

smstrauss: you are an indoctrinated moron. Obama NEVER presented ANYTHING ever. His Obamabots did and they were shown to be frauds, just like your self.

Quoting or citing someone that opines on anything just shy on the United States Constitution means little to nothing.

You just might want to research the USC to make your self less of an asshole than you already are.

Punk.

December 12, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

You are not doing very well in discussing facts and are continuing to swear and call names.

Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii to both Politifact and FactCheck, and the facts on it were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii, with a statement from the Department of Health of Hawaii that the documents in the files mean that Obama was born in Hawaii (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

This is what the Wall Street Journal said: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn."

December 13, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Stop whining you blithering fool. The facts are that Obama cannot bring his birth certificate out in the open for all to see just like his college records and everything else he has hidden at the moment.

The "on the internet" fraud certificate is nothing more than a made up POS and the folks in Hawaii have everything locked up. So, keep your libtard self in a closet because that's where you belong. Moron.

And repeating the only two citations is not working well at all because most that come here already know they are flat out wrong. Pick some more.

December 13, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Didn't Obama's sister who was born in Indonesia have a Hawaii COLB? Just saying if the same could be for Barry... born elsewhere but a digital COLB with marks of forgery. http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

December 13, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Wait, no evidence that Barry's grandmother said he was born in Kenya? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4FqVRWgrNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OirvxsUsxb0
Oh, btw, you need 2 American citizen parents to be a 'natural born' citizen as was laid out in the Constitution, doesn't it seem abit odd for 'natural born" be used to describe citizen unless it meant something?

December 13, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Stop speaking Truth Jadem. It bothers the libtards.

December 13, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

You are still swearing and calling names. This does not give a good impression of birthers. I assume that you hope to convince people of your view. Being uncouth is not a good way to do it.

Obama has not only posted the official birth certificate of Hawaii, he has shown the physical copy of it to both Politifact and FactCheck. The copy that has been posted is not a fraud. The officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed the facts on it, and they confirmed to Politifact that they sent Obama the Certification of Live Birth in 2007. If the birth certificate had been forged, then McCain or Hillary would have been all over the situation, and so would the Hawaii government, which is under a Republican governor. Instead, the officials in Hawaii repeatedly confirm that the facts on the Certification are the same as those in the file, and that this means that Obama was born in Hawaii (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html).

Re Most of the people that come here know that the citations are wrong. They do? Far more people believe the Wall Street Journal than an uncouth blogger.

Re: the College Records. Candidates tend to release their college records during the campaigns. No president has done it after being elected. There is no law that says that a president or a candidate has to release his or her college records. Obama did well enough to get into Harvard Law School, from which he graduated Magna Cum Laude.

December 13, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Stop whining libtard. Barack hasn't shown anything yet no matter how many libtardish bullshit you cite. Get over it. Either he is an illegal alien or he doesn't have TWO American citizens as parents and that's what is required to become the Executive. Read the constitution libtard.

December 13, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

So why did Barry SIGN onto a resolution that being a natural born citizen was being born of American citizen PARENTS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEnaAZrYqQI

December 13, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

And there you go spreading around Truth to a libtard! LOL!!

Obama more than likely doesn't even know who his daddy is.

December 13, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Didn't Obama's sister who was born in Indonesia have a Hawaii COLB?

NOPE. She does not have a COLB. She is now a naturalized US citizen.

Obama does have a COLB, and it says on it very clearly that he was born in Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii. At the time Obama was born it was not possible for someone who was born outside of Hawaii to get a Hawaii birth certificate at all. Even now you cannot get one that says " born in Hawaii" on it if you are not born in Hawaii.

The two officials have repeatedly confirmed that the facts in the file show that Obama was born in Hawaii.

December 14, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Read the constitution libtard.

There is nothing in the Constitution that says that a president has to have two US parents. It says that he has to be Natural Born, which at the time of the writing of the Constitution meant "born in the country." It was used at the time as a synonym for Native Born, which was very seldom used. In dozens of quotations from Americans at the time (not Vattel, he was Swiss), it is always used to mean "born in the country."

That is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

December 14, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

And there you have a brain dead libtard espousing what the USC says and doesn't say. I suppose this libtard has never read:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Too bad nutbar.

December 14, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "No Person except a natural born Citizen."

I have read it. It says a natural born citizen, meaning one who was born in the USA. That was the original meaning of Natural Born, and the one that applies to Obama. The Constitution does not say that a president has to have two US citizen parents. It simply says "Natural Born," and that meant born in the country.

That is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

December 14, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

No, silly. Read the Law of Nations. It isn't hard to find out. Natural Born is exactly equal to a person being born of TWO American Citizens. Barack Hussein Obama doesn't have TWO American Citizens. Read that constitution again, Buckwheat.

If what you say is true than many in this Nation would qualify to aspire to President and they do not. Neither does Barack.

Have fun.

By the way, Lindsey Graham is actually a Democrat In Drag thus making him a Democrat, a Leftists thug and Hatch is of the same breed. Neither one has researched the USC. Period.

December 14, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "Read the Law of Nations."

I thought you were going to ask about that. Vattel, in his book The Law of Nations, recommends several things that we did not adopt in the Constitution. For example, he recommended that each country establish a state religion and force people to join it or allow them to leave the country. He also does not ever say that the leader of a country should be a Natural Born Citizen, or even a citizen. He gives several examples of countries picking their kings and emperors from the nobility of other countries, and never says that this is a bad thing.

Moreover, Vattel does not say how Natural Born Citizens should be treated. He never says that citizens of any kind should get a vote.

So, though Vattel did say something about a category of citizens who have two parents and were born in the country (which, by the way, was not translated as Natural Born Citizen until well after the Constitution was adopted), there is no evidence that the writers of the Constitution followed Vattel. They were primarily lawyers, and the use of the term Natural Born that they were familiar with was in the law, where it meant at the time "born in the country."

December 14, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Sorry, pal. Your in depth platitudes do not work here. The Law of Nations is listed in the Enumerated Powers of the Congress. Get a clue.

December 14, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "The Law of Nations" is a book written by a Swiss philosopher. It is not one of the enumerated powers of the US Congress. There is no reference to the book, The Law of Nations in the Constitution. The fact that Law of Nations is capitalized does not mean the book. Capitalization in the Constitution is different from it is today.

For example: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility..." Why was Tranquility capitalized. To emphasize it, not because it is a book.

December 15, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

You are an idiot. What do capitalized verbiage mean? They mean something, right?

Law of Nations is in fact capitalized.

Article 1, Section 8

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Gee. I wonder what that means. Was there an organization called Law of Nations back then? No, there wasn't.

Get over it. You have been had. Now, go away.

December 15, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "Offences against the Law of Nations"

That means that they can punish acts that are illegal according to international law. It does not mean that they can punish acts that are against the book "The Law of Nations."

Here are some other capitalizations in the Constitution:

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers."

Taxes is not a book. States is not a book, Union is not a book and Numbers is not a book.

The name of Vattel's book is The Law of Nations. The capitalized, but the is not capitalized in the Constitution. It says "the Law of Nations."

The US Congress has from time to time made laws punishing offenses against the law of nations. It has never specifically passed a law punishing offenses against Vattel's Law of Nations.

Getting back to what Natural Born meant at the time of the writing of the Constitution. It meant "born in the country," which was the way that it was used in Blackstone and in the laws in the colonies before the Revolution. The writers of the Constitution were 60-70% lawyers and jurists, and this is the meaning of Natural Born that they were familiar with.

December 15, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Wrong again silly wibtard. Go try someplace else. We have already looked into all the bullshit you espouse.

December 15, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Maya, Barry's sister HAS a Hawaiian COLB. She was born in Indonesia.

And why has templates for a HI COLB turned up? A COLB is NOT a full legal document anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01nj0rbWVA0 @ minute 7:04-7:24
Umm, yeah getting technical on a capitalization or not is really nitpicking when the Founders didn't spell or even write the same way we do today. Look at 7:23 or so.

December 16, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Maya, Barry's sister HAS a Hawaiian COLB. She was born in Indonesia.

Yes, she was born in Indonesia. No, she does not have a COLB, as Leo Donofrio showed.

Leo’s web site is down now, but this refers to it. There is simply no Hawaiian birth file of any kind for Maya.

Quotes:

MAYA SOETORO

KingsKid also requested index data for Maya Soetoro, the President’s sister. Okubo’s response indicates that there is no record on file with the DoH in Hawaii for Maya. So, I believe we can safely put to bed all allegations that Obama’s online COLB was created using a COLB issued for Maya as a template.

Here is the request made by KingsKid on September 28, 2009 5:20 AM as to Maya:

As per Hawai’i Revised Statute 338-18(d), I am herein requesting “index data” available to the public according to the statute, specifically the index data pertaining to a birth record for the person known as President Obama’s sister Maya Soetoro, aka Maya Kassandra Soetoro, aka Maya Soetoro-ng…

Below is Okubo’s response:

From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid email redacted]
Cc: Onaka, Alvin T.
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: Request for Information

Aloha…

There is no record that responds to this request. (
http://www.therightsideoflife.com/2009/10/02/eligibility-update-hi-doh-begins-revealing-data-judge-responds-in-kerchner-v-obama/)

End quotes

But supposing that Maya had received a Hawaiian COLB. Would that COLB say “born in Hawaii” on it? No. The law does not allow the DOH to lie about the place of birth. It would say something like: “Hawaii COLB, Place of Birth: Indonesia.”

Obama’s COLB clearly says that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. And this fact has been twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican administration.

Re: “A COLB is NOT a full legal document anyway.”

It IS!. It is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, and the only one that Hawaii currently sends out. It no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone, not even to the birth person who asks for a copy of her or his own original document. All that the send is the COLB (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html).

The COLB is accepted as proof of birth in Hawaii by ALL the departments in Hawaii (Yes, including DHHL; I checked), and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department.

Re capitalization in the Constitution. Yes, that is my point. Capitalization was different in those days. So the fact that Law of Nations was capitalized does not mean that they were referring to the book “The Law of Nations.”

They did say Natural Born, but that referred to the common use of the term at the time, which stemmed from the British common law, the laws in the American colonies and Blackstone, and it simply meant “born in the country.” The only exceptions were the children of foreign diplomats.

December 16, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Suppose you read the USC?

December 16, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "Suppose you read the USC?"

This is a Constitutional issue. It requires that the president be a Natural Born Citizen. The meaning of Natural Born at the time was "born in the country."

The USC defines who is a citizen, and one of its rules is that if you are born in the USA, you are a citizen. Others are too, such as babies born of US parents abroad, but all who are born in this country are citizens. Obama was born in Hawaii. That makes him a Natural Born Citizen.

The assertion that he was NOT Natural Born was raised with the Electoral College in an e-mail campaign. Not one of the 365 votes that Obama won on Nov. 4 went the other way. Obama's election was confirmed by Congress without a single member raising an objection.

December 16, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

El wrongo, pal. Being "born in the USA" does not a natural born citizen make. You can decry that bit of BS all you want to but it flat out doesn't work. And the "confirmed by Congress" means very little to nothing. What were they afraid of? What was SR 511 all about? Why did Obama add TWO entries into the Bill for John McCain and then refused to show his OWN birth certificate?

Silly retards.

December 16, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Being "born in the USA" does not a natural born citizen make.

Yes it does. That is what Natural Born means. As late a World War I men who registered for the draft were asked if they were citizens and then if they were naturalized or Natural Born.

The Wong Kim Ark case repeatedly stresses the meaning of Natural Born is simply birth in the realm in England or birth in the country in the USA.

That is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

You disagree, sure. But you will not get five votes on the Supreme Court who agree with you. Even the conservatives on the court will vote with Hatch and Graham and the 365 electors in the Electoral College. The case most likely will not even be called because to call a case there has to be four votes that there is an issue, and the consensus that Natural Born just means born in the country is so overwhelming that there may not even be four votes.

December 16, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

No, it doesn't and I don't give a damn what any Congress Critter says about it. Period. The constitution says "natural born" for a reason just like it mentions "citizen". A natural born citizen does not equate to a citizen. It is two separate issues. I have been studying this for nearly 40 years and your count doesn't.

Why is it mentioned in the USC "natural born" if they already didn't know what it meant. That is in the Law of Nations and that is listed in the enumerated powers for a reason.

Get over it. You lose. Obama isn't a natural born American citizen. Period, no matter his "influence" on SR 511.

McCain proved he was in fact born of TWO American citizens on a military base. Obama never complied with his BS.

Have fun.

December 16, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Re: "A natural born citizen does not equate to a citizen."

Of course. A Naturalized citizen cannot be a Natural Born Citizen. So, not every citizen can be a Natural Born Citizen. So you are right that citizen does not equate to Natural Born Citizen.

But anyone born in the USA is a Natural Born Citizen (except for the children of foreign diplomats).

Re: "in the Law of Nations." You mean The Law of Nations. But the phrase Natural Born Citizen did not appear in an English translation of The Law of Nations until many years after the Constitution was approved. And, Natural Born was commonly used in America at the time of thew writing of the Constitution to mean "born in the country."

Re "have fun." Thanks, that is a nice comment for a change. No swearing either. Dramatic change. Merry Christmas!

December 16, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

No, it is called the Law of Nations. There was no The Law of Nations back then. Wake up. And a Natural Born citizen in this Nation is a man or woman born of TWO each American Citizens whether or not they are born here or naturalized. Get with the program.

December 16, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

No, it is called the Law of Nations. T

The book is called The Law of Nations.

And a Natural Born citizen in this Nation is a man or woman born of TWO each American Citizens whether or not they are born here or naturalized.

The original meaning of Natural Born was simply "born in the country."

You should remember that at least two conservative members of the Supreme Court had fathers who were not US citizens at one time. It is likely that they were born after their fathers were nationalized, but they are likely to ask themselves "would I be any more loyal to the USA if I were born before my father was nationalized than if I were born after he was nationalized?'

And, they would conclude No, they would be just as loyal either way. That being the case, and the meaning of Natural Born being commonly used as "born in the country," they are not likely to vote for the "two parents and born in the country" theory.

December 17, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Sorry. "commonly used" is not constitutional. Keep digging your own grave. You'll need the space when we bury you all in 2010.

Besides, you're rambling makes no sense when the facts are known.

December 17, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

t/The Law of Nations
Book 1, Chap 19, § 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights....

First edition was in 1759. And how could Ben Franklin have thanked Charles W.F. Dumas for giving him a translation of the Law of Nations in 1775? Stating in his thank you letter:

"I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly, that copy which I kept, has been continually in the hands of the members of our congress, now sitting ...."

Also other Founders of the U.S. ALSO quoted and referred to Vattel many times over before the Constitution was drafted. Which means either they could read it in the original language, or it was translated BEFORE the time that YOU state.

December 17, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Re: Vattel.

He was an expert on international law. The election of a president is a domestic matter. Vattel also recommended some things that our Constitution did not adopt, such as that all countries should have state religions and force people to join them or allow them to leave the country. Moreover, Vattel never says that the leader of a country should be a citizen, much less a "Natural Born Citizen" (which did not appear in a translation of Vattel until many years after the Constitution was adopted.

So there is doubt that the framers used Vattel's definition. John Jay was a lawyer, familiar with the common law. The common way that Natural Born was used at the time was the way it was used in the common law, meaning "birth in the country."

December 17, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

"of parents that are citizens"...and THERE you have it. Thanks for admitting that Barack Hussein Obama is NOT a Natural Born Citizen. Very good Jadem.

Barack was born of a KENYAN daddy which, by the way, is NOT an American citizen. He is of BRITISH citizenry.

Again. Thanks for the confirmation. I was waiting for you to actually quote the source.

Strauss: And, does it matter that OUR Nation did not use the entire Law of Nations? No. Our Nation was conceived, under God Himself, as an "experiment" and you libtards are screwing it all up.

December 17, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

"of parents that are citizens"...

This is not the law. There is no requirement that the president's parents be citizens. If there were, the framers of the Constitution would have said so. They didn't say so. They said "Natural Born." That meant at the time "born in the country."

HIs father was a Kenyan citizen. We all know that. Yet not a single Electoral College vote that he won went against him. That is because all 365 of those electors do not believe that you have to have two US citizen parents. And that is the way the majority of votes on the Supreme Court would go too, if it ever got to the court. Most likely the case would not even get the four votes needed to call it.

Re: "or it was translated BEFORE the time that YOU state."

Sure it was translated. The copy that was sent to Ben Franklin was a translation. But it did not use the words "Natural Born." It said that the "indigines" are those who are born in a country of two citizen parents, and then it never said that the indigines should even get a vote.

In contrast to "indignies", the words Natural Born were in the common law and the laws of the American colonies at the time, and Natural Born was used in dozens of quotations by American leaders, and it always meant "born in the country."

December 17, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

That should read "indigenes."


The translation that was available before the writing of the Constitution read:

"The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."

Vattel does not recommend that indigenes be the leaders of the country. He doesn't even suggest that they should get a vote.

December 17, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

By YOUR definition of "born in the country" could mean that ANY child born of foreign nationals who came to the U.S. and had that child, that child would be a NBC? Children of illegals, children of foreigners on student or work visa's, children of diplomats, children of terrorists... and where would it end?

December 17, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Jadem...the libtards don't want it to end. They are stuck on REAL stupid.

December 17, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

The child of a terrorist is not necessarily a terrorist, and the child of a dictator will not necessarily be another dictator. Our system says that the voters decide things like this. We get to decide whether to vote for the child of a foreigner or the child of two US citizens.

We do not have the right to vote for someone who is under the age of 35. That is clearly stated. We do not have the right to vote for someone who has not resided 14 years in the USA. That is clear as well. We do not have the right to elect a foreigner or a naturalized US citizens.

We do have the right to elect the US-born babies of foreigners. Conservatives have often said that they want to elect justices who are "strict constructionists," meaning that the justices cannot read something into words in a document. Interpreting "Natural Born" to bar the US-born children of foreigners would be reading something into the words.

The words do not say that ANY US-born children are barred from being president, and the way that Natural Born was used at the time of the writing of the Constitution meant "born in the country."

Who protects us against the children of terrorists? We do. We do not have to vote for them. But to say that we CANNOT vote for them diminishes our power. In any case, the Constitution does not say that the US-born children of foreigners are barred from being president.

December 18, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Keep on rambling libtard.

December 18, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey

Even the Fight the smears site says Barry is a 'native citizen' and not a 'natural born citizen' read it yourself: http://www.theobamafile.com/_exhibits/FightTheSmearsCOLBHTML.htm http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm
Thus, Barry is and was NOT eligible to become POTUS at ANY TIME.

Your education and reasoning is flawed, US born (born in US does NOT make a US citizen by ANY stretch of the truth) children of foreigners (NOT naturalized US citizens) is one thing that the Founders did NOT want, and to protect the US from usurpers exactly like Barry is. You lose.

December 19, 2009 | Unregistered CommenterJadem

Fight the smears site says Barry is a 'native citizen'

Yes. He is a native citizen. A native citizen is a Natural Born Citizen. All native born citizens are Natural Born Citizens. The original meaning of Natural Born meant native born.

Yale Law review wrote: It is well settled that “native-born” citizens, those born in the United States, qualify as natural born." (Jill A. Pryor, Yale Law Review, 1988)

December 19, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Re: "Children of foreigners (NOT naturalized US citizens) is one thing that the Founders did NOT want."

Then why didn't they say it? It would have been easy to say it either in the Constitution itself or in the Federalist Papers, or in a letter between two framers. They said "Natural Born" and that meant "born in the country."

December 19, 2009 | Unregistered Commentersmrstrauss

Jadem: this particular libtard is flat out stuck in the stupid mode anb is making its points out of Barry's ass.

December 19, 2009 | Registered CommenterMark "Snooper" Harvey
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